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      CommentAuthorEmbrance
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2008
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    I'dlike to ask you if it is viable to make e107 CMS a flatfile cms with some additional coding,or should I start from the ground up?What are your thoughts on this?e107 is pretty big(in framework terms)so much coding will be needed.Do you believe it would be better to start a flatfile cms from the scratch or could someone have the same result jusat by modding it to use flatfiles?
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      CommentAuthorNoWhereMan
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2008
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    I don't know.

    I considered myself porting wordpress to flatfiles but I decided it wasn't worth it.

    Consider that

    1. Your work won't ever be a fork, because you'd always rely on the main project code; this means that at each major release (or each security fix) you'll have to merge with upstream. And this can be a real pain in the neck.

    2. A flat file solution especially in PHP won't ever. ever. ever be as efficient as a conventional DBMS. This because PHP is essentially stateless like the HTTP protocol, and threadless; this means you won't be able to feed incoming requests with cached data from your main memory (read: RAM), even if you've just served the same exact request; which bring us to...

    3. A non-flat solution won't be optimized for flat files. A DBMS allows you to do very complex queries, and it is meant to compute the solution in a very short time; consider the same done by a non-resident program and in coded using an interpreted language!

    but it's true that CMSs usually don't use many tables, and relations aren't so complex.

    Well, you might want to try for fun and study.

    Aren't those the reasons for which we do everything?
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      CommentAuthorEmbrance
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2008
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    1)Yep,I thought of that :/
    2)So the actual speed problem with flatfiles is that they are threadless while MySQL is multi-threaded hence so fast,right?

    The main reaosn is,that while I find e107 the best CMS out there,it utf-8 support along with MySQL utf-8 issue are pain in the neck.It been like 5 times I have lost data,due to MySQL compatibility issues and another 2 for e107 problems...

    While FP it the best utf8 supporting script I have used till now(Maybe Drupal is better,I dont remember)I am much concerned about speed later,as most ofthe sites I had in the past were getting 5k+ hits per days,so I assume FP would break or eat the server machine alive...lol
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      CommentAuthorNoWhereMan
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2008
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    well, do consider a "real" DBMS, then.

    Even though I'd be interested in seeing how FP reacts to such heavy loads :) but it would mean at least optimizing the parsing routines for entries, caching down to static html at least the home page.

    Drupal should work fine.
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      CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2008
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    Here is another consideration: clearly you must still be within a PHP environment. I am not sure why you want a "flatfile" solution. BUT! :) You could consider using SQLite3 for the DB, which (if I understand correctly) will get you a kind of "flatfile" solution.

    I use Frog CMS for a particular project. It can use either mySQL as the db, or SQLite3 with PDO. With SQLite, the "db" is a single file, and it works very nicely. I notice that someone is porting sNews 1.6 (another light-weight PHP/mySQL based CMS) to this setup, apparently with some success.

    There is a lot of information out there (Google!) on SQLite3. This list at Wikipedia suggests there are some other, quite robust, CMS's with permit SQLite as the DB as well (Movable Type, for instance).

    I did make an extended test of e107 about a year or two ago. Interesting CMS, but I wouldn't rate it as "the best out there"! :) But software is a very personal thing! I'm leaning much more now towards minimal-core, robust-plugin systems, and this seems to be the direction NWM is taking FP in. Seems good to me!

    FWIW! David.
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      CommentAuthorNoWhereMan
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2008 edited
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    nice you mentioned SQLite, and it is almost mandatory when you talk about flat file dbs :D

    well just yesterday I was reading a bit of their documentation, I think I'll take a lot of inspiration from that project for my research :)

    and yes, you got really what the spirit of the project would like to be :)
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      CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2008 edited
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    Well, you might want to try for fun and study.


    Well said, NWM! Btw -- I just ran into this which might be of interest for exploring SQLite. (There are of course loads of different tools to manage SQLite db's; I think this one is the most commonly used?)

    By the way -- is HSQLDB of any interest? It was bundled in some calendar/project-management software I used. But maybe because it is Java-based, that makes it not so useful for CMS applications? I know very little about these things! :D Also (might as well add this in -- you never know who might find it useful!), there is also txtSQL...

    Of course, the BIG advantage of SQLite over these others for CMS purposes is that it is "part" of PHP5+ already.

    FWIW! YMMV! etc.! :) David.
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      CommentAuthorEmbrance
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2008
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    After some more search it seems that PHPv4 & 5 arent *really* utf8 compatible and after v6 and onwards they will be.SQLite is a good choice,and since its flatfile it will do.FP could use it as well,as from what I have seen you can use some cool SQL sysntax stuff some I guess that would be more flexibility.
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      CommentAuthorEmbrance
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2008
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    btw,TXTSQL is the closest thing to MySQL in terms of speed.
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      CommentAuthorMartin
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2008 edited
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    Please NWM - on anything you bring FP to - please please please leave FP a txt-based solution... Flatfiles are reason Nr. 1 for me to use it.

    TXTSQL sounds pretty good. Can that be set up on webspace that has nothing then php4/php5 ? I´m permanently "fighting" against my Webspace that has no SQL, no mod_rewrite etc etc.

    Flatpress is the first CMS, that is working without any problems.
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      CommentAuthorNoWhereMan
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2008
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    don't worry :) I've never had in my mind to change that :)